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Interfaith Insights B

Interfaith Insights 3

Interfaith Insights 3 – Zen Buddhism

Welcome to our third “Interfaith Insights” conversation.
In this interview Anthony MacIsaac learns more about Zen Buddhism from long time friend, theoretical physicist, and Bruce Lee admirer, Neil Warrack, a Zen Buddhist living in Glasgow.

Anthony Macisaac

Anthony: As I understand it, you are Zen Buddhist. Perhaps you could give me a rundown of what drew you to this, and of where Zen stands in relation to other forms of Buddhism?

Neil: My first interest in Eastern traditions and philosophies probably came via martial arts and, in particular, Bruce Lee movies. A good friend introduced me to Bruce Lee via the film “Enter The Dragon”, which certainly left an impression. I ended up videotaping “Way of The Dragon” which was on TV late one night; in that film – which I watched endlessly – I saw clearly in his character what all Buddhists would recognise as ‘right thought’ and ‘right speech’, two aspects of the Noble Eightfold Path.

I read about the martial art he developed, Jeet Kune Do, and was very interested in the underlying philosophy which was one of ‘no form’, which is like developing a selection-box of techniques from different formalised martial arts which would allow a fighter to respond without thought or constraint. I guess there is an advantage to being less predictable in a fight, but his approach also had a notion of ‘this is all you need’.

As a person he seemed content – I was attracted to that. There was also something about his disciplined nature that I loved. The idea that discipline ‘in the right direction’ can produce, eventually, unconstrained action is something that still attracts me. It reminds me of a jazz musician using a repetitious practice just so they can get up on stage and play something they have never played before. It seemed like a nice form of freedom.

Years later, whilst studying abroad in Hong Kong, a Zen Monk who was living at the halls of residence with us taught a group of us some very basic meditation techniques. I loved the apparent simplicity of it and the feeling that everyone was welcome and equally ready to start Zen meditation. When I moved back home to Glasgow, I looked up a local Zen group and headed along, not long after that, I guess I had the thought of, “OK – so, I’m a Zen Buddhist now.”

Compared to other forms of Buddhism, I think Zen is characterised by its emphasis on meditation practice. Zen is a word derived from another word meaning ‘meditation’. Certainly, as I’ve experienced it, meditation is an extremely important part of Zen that is probably central in the life of anyone who calls themself a ‘Zen Buddhist’.

Anthony: If we had to speak of God, how would you approach this?

Neil: You and I have often spoken of God and, although I don’t believe in a being who created the universe at some other time before I existed, I think we are often talking about the same thing and I certainly think we understand and agree with each other a lot of the time, despite the differences in the way we use language. I think we are both often verbally dancing around the fact that we see ourselves as being a part of something much, much bigger.

I find monotheistic religions often speak of a God who wants us to be a certain way, and non-theistic religions, like Taoism for example, speak of a ‘way’ that is natural or preferable in some sense. I find these two ideas are often in agreement when it comes to some of the big-picture things. It’s perhaps a bit funny to put it like this, but I believe that God is the thing that doesn’t require my belief. God is that thing which persists, regardless of my personal opinions. God is love, yes, and kindness and compassion, of course. But for me God is also hate, frustration and sadness as well. These things arise despite our beliefs!  To follow that logic, I believe God is also sandwiches and traffic lights and all those other, less-dramatic, things.

I find conversations about faith so fascinating when I feel a deep agreement between two people who may seem to have very different ways of looking at the world. You and I studied physics together and, at its core, physics is the process of asking the question, “What can we, as individual humans, agree upon?” We call those agreeable notions ‘facts’ and say they point to some larger, more fundamental, truth; a truth that doesn’t care about our differing private opinions. Physics and Buddhism agree that we are part of a very big ‘whole’, the universe, but I think we can go even further and say that not only are we part of something bigger but that there really isn’t a very good notion of ourselves at all. That’s because it isn’t needed by Buddhism or by physics, and it can often be detrimental to our realisation of what is true.

The ‘self’ doesn’t really exist in Buddhism in any sort of fundamental way, and in the physics of quantum theory we also have no notion of ‘self’, although physicists don’t really use that word. In our currently popular form of quantum theory, we have the notion of ‘measurement’, to put this another way, we have the mathematical description of an observation, but there is no real ‘observer’ in the maths. There is no bit of the calculations that you can point to and say, “That’s the thing that is observing!” Most quantum theorists probably agree that this is slightly unsatisfactory or maybe just that it is a little non-intuitive, but the theory doesn’t require an observer at all. Our assumption that someone must be the observer leads us directly to logical paradoxes. We get into confused thinking just by imposing our own opinions and ideas onto that which is in front of our eyes. I love the phrase in the American declaration of independence that goes, “We hold these truths to be self-evident”. For me physics and religion, and all life, is about exploring that which is truly “self-evident”, I think when I speak of God, I’m speaking about something which, hopefully one day, we can all agree is clear and self-evident.

Anthony: To move away from pure theology, how is your community organised? You told me before that you have a Roshi (master), and perhaps you can tell me more about this relationship. It sounds similar to the role of a Spiritual Director in Catholic Christianity.

Neil: We have, in our Glasgow ‘Sangha’ a ‘Sensei’. The Sangha is just the Buddhist community. The whole world is a Sangha really, but in our own local one we have a qualified teacher who we call Sensei. This is a person who has had their insight verified by someone who has had their insight verified by some who has had their insight verified by…. you get the idea. We have Roshis and other Senseis in our larger Sangha; connected groups in Sweden, Finland, the U.S.A, and elsewhere. Roshi means ‘old master’ or ‘old teacher’ and it is usually honorific, at least in our tradition. Besides Senseis and Roshis, which you might call ‘teachers’, we have Priests and Abbots who are trained in the wider areas of Buddhist tradition, philosophy and ritual. It is common for a teacher to be a Priest or an Abbot, but it is not essential. Likewise, we have Priests who are not teachers. I think it would be reasonable to think of a Roshi as a spiritual director, although I’m not 100% what that means in Catholicism!

Anthony: You have spoken before about the idea of illusion and enlightenment. As we move away from maya (illusion) towards the ‘real’, what might we experience? In other words, what might enlightenment feel like? If I understand correctly, it will certainly mean that our language becomes somewhat redundant, and that we may enter into a form of experience that can’t quite be expressed. I’d also ask here about the role of Buddhist scriptures – to what extent do these help?

Neil: I think words are powerful, but they have a slippery dynamic nature, I think that’s apparent whenever people take something the wrong way, which seems to happen all the time! But, to go a bit further than that, words are often used as a way to communicate, and we are often communicating ideas like, for example, ‘murder is wrong’ or ‘I need to catch my train before lunch’. I think Buddhism is a tradition of exploring something which is not an idea. Of course, reality can be conceptualised, but it is obviously more than just a concept and Buddhism is a framework of sorts to explore reality in a way which moves away from conceptualisation. The term often used is ‘direct experience’. My teacher often says, ‘we have a lot of ideas – we probably don’t need any more’.

So, if I can talk of enlightenment at all then it is perhaps best to say that it’s about directly experiencing our world in a way that is a little bit more aware of our very human preoccupation with conceptualising everything. We believe our conceptualisations very readily and this belief is an attachment that is not required by nature. I think of ideas as being sticky; some ideas are a bit sticky; others are really sticky. Buddhism says that our ideas, and any associated ‘stickiness’ they may have, are essentially a form of delusion and enlightenment is about becoming unstuck, or realising that there is, in fact, nothing for ideas to even stick to. The whole thing gets difficult (even sticky itself) when we talk about it, but I guess that’s part of the fun?

Anthony: Finally, you have a masters in theoretical physics and are currently completing a research masters in experimental particle physics, what impact do your physics studies have on your Buddhism and vice-versa? I’m also interested in whether there is an interplay between your Buddhism and your work as a musician.

Neil: In truth, my Buddhist practice cannot be separated from any other aspect of my life, be that studying physics, playing music, or eating breakfast. So it’s everywhere.

If the benefits of meditation practice, for example, didn’t extend outside the realm of those moments of meditation, why would I bother?

This must be true of all religious practice; it changes the way you move around in the world and the way you experience things. I suspect most Christians aren’t playing a gamble of ‘if I am good now, then I get heaven later’. That would be hard to maintain for a lifetime without any real daily payoff, we all like to see returns in the short term, right?

To be a bit less vague, my Buddhist practice allows me to deal with the emotional bits of life in a more complete and fulfilling way. This way, I feel like I feel more, it’s good. I believe that meditation can also help with concentration. Before I developed a regular meditation practice, playing music seems to have been my meditation. It puts you right there in the moment and you learn to lean on something that requires no thought, especially when playing with others; there is a wordless communication that never ceases, if you care to tap into it, and you can sort of sit back and watch it all happen. And when it’s flowing and you are ‘in the zone’, there really are no wrong answers, there’s just the music, calling and responding to itself, and sometimes it’s really enjoyable… and sometimes it’s really not.

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Conference 1

Human Fraternity Conference in Glasgow

Dr Duncan MacLaren

Over 100 people from the Shia and Catholic communities with other invited guests attended this event organised by the Scottish Catholic Bishops’ Committee for Interreligious Dialogue and the Ahl Al-Beit Society- Scotland in Glasgow’s City Chambers on 7th February.

The purpose of the conference was to celebrate Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together, the document signed by Pope Francis and the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar, Ahmed Al-Tayeb, in Abu Dhabi in 2019. The United Nations celebrates the document on 4th February every year as the International Day of Human Fraternity to promote “cultural and religious tolerance, understanding and dialogue”.

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Pope Francis and the Grand Imam of Cairo’s Al-Azhar Sheikh Ahmad al-Tayeb signed the 'Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together' on February 4th in Abu Dhabi. [Photo courtesy of the UAE Embassy in Lebanon]
Every year, the Bishops’ Interreligious Committee and the Shia Ahl Al-Beit Society organise a conference to help publicise the document, urge people of faith to study its contents and help bring the document alive in the public domain.

The two main speakers were Sheikh Dr Mohammad Ali Shomali, a distinguished Muslim scholar, academic, philosopher and theologian who has spoken on interfaith issues in many countries over the last twenty-five years and Bishop Brian McGee, Bishop of Argyll and the Isles and President of the Scottish Bishops’ Committee for Interreligious Dialogue. They both tackled the document’s challenges and possibilities for us in the contemporary world.

Conference 3
Joseph Sikora, Secretary of the Bishops' Committee, with Keynote Speakers Dr. Shomali and Bishop McGee alongside Azzam Mohamad of Ahl Al Bait - Scotland

Sheikh Shomali reminded us that, whether we are Muslim or Christian, we both face remarkably similar challenges and possibilities. He began his talk by reminding us that the document had been well received around the world and mentioned that Pope Francis was inspired to write his own encyclical (Fratelli Tutti) on universal fraternity.

The Sheikh talked about our common humanity under God and, how reminding ourselves of our divine source, we should manifest love in our lives and centre on reconciling people, bringing them together. He cited the Holy Qu’ran that even reconciling two people who were alienated from one another was better than one year of fasting and praying - though these two are necessary in our lives as well! If we ignore our common humanity, we will often treat people as animals and not as creatures of God. He cited the Holy Qu’ran that God’s best plan was to create human beings though he gave us free will. Too often, we misuse our divine creation by shedding blood or creating mischief and that is when we forget that we share a common humanity. Unity does not come through the sword but in manifesting God’s love, mercy, and kindness and to work for reconciliation - to bring people together. Sheikh Shomali, who is based in London, ended with a word of admiration for our interfaith efforts in Scotland.

Bishop Brian, fresh from a 13-hour dash by ferry and train from Barra, reminded us of the good that religion can do in the face of many who judge it solely as a divisive force because “we believe in a Creator and the world is not merely a planet but part of Creation, entrusted to us by the Creator. People of faith ought to be more inspired than anyone else.”  He then declared the Document on Human Fraternity as one excellent example of what Faith can offer in terms of its wisdom. He said, “From its very first sentence the document challenges us with the importance of equality in rights, duties, and dignity and seeks to encourage us with the values of goodness, love, and peace.....It has been welcomed by many political and intellectual leaders throughout the world as, in the words of the United Nations’ Secretary General, António Guterres, a ‘model of interfaith harmony and human solidarity’ and an inspiration to ‘renew our commitment to stand together as one human family’”.

Bishop Brian also welcomed the presence of young Muslims and Catholics from schools and universities in the City Chambers to learn about and, above all, put into action the document’s vision not just in a theoretical but practical way which leads to people treating one another with respect, promotes listening to the other person and his or her faith tradition and learning about our similarities of belief. In addition, Bishop Brian emphasised that we should also appreciate our differences and work together to improve life for all, especially the poor and vulnerable.

In the second half of the evening, the participants at round tables discussed the talks and put their thoughts down on paper as to how we could continue to bring people of different faiths together. These have now been typed up and will be distributed to everyone who registered.

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As we left the City Chambers, I spoke to some pupils who attended the event from St Roch's Secondary School in Glasgow as they had taken part in interfaith activities during Interfaith Week. They told me they enjoyed the talks and the discussion in groups at the Human Fraternity event and how proud they were of their school’s diversity.Thumbnail Img 0588

The evening concluded with the presentation of lifetime achievement awards to Sr Isabel Smyth SND, former Secretary of the Bishops’ Committee for Interreligious Dialogue, and Azzam Mohammad, Director of the Ahl Al-Beit Society. Both have been involved in interreligious dialogue and action for many years and their interactions have resulted in a close friendship. Congratulations to them both.

Conference 4
Sr Isabel Smyth SND, recipient of the Lifetime Service Award

Dr Duncan MacLaren is the representative of the Archdiocese of Glasgow on the Bishops’ Committee for Interreligious Dialogue.

Pictured in our header image: Duncan MacLaren, Joseph Sikora, Bishop McGee, Azzam Mohamad and Sr. Isabel (presented with awards for lifetime service of interfaith dialogue), Ahmed Khweir and Fr. Charles Coyle.

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Interfaith Insights B

Interfaith Insights 2

Anthony Macisaac
Anthony MacIsaac

Welcome to our second “Interfaith Insights” conversation.
Here Anthony MacIsaac is in conversation with fellow Yazidi students…

The Yazidis are an ethno-religious group found in Kurdistan (northern Iraq), Armenia, Georgia, and Iran. Their religion is founded upon ancient beliefs and practices, and was informed by the medieval Sufis, especially by one of their major religious figures: Shaykh Adi ibn Musafir.

Yazidis have been persecuted over the centuries and most recently were targeted by Islamic State (ISIS). As a result, many Yazidis no longer live in their traditional homeland area but now form a diaspora in several countries across the globe.

Dialogue between Anthony MacIsaac and two Yazidis – Kalash Tamoyan, and Samo Bakoyan. Many thanks to the Institut Kurde for helping facilitate this initial dialogue:

Anthony: It’s great to meet with you! Are you from Kurdistan, or elsewhere?
Samo: We are both from Armenia. There are also Yazidis in Georgia.

Kalash: There are 11-13 villages with Yazidis in Armenia, they are concentrated in these areas.

Anthony: I read that Lalash (Kurdistan) is the most sacred place for Yazidis, have you been?
Samo: Of course! We try to go when we can, usually once a year, but the situation with getting the necessary visas is complicated.

Kalash showed us video footage and photographs of Lalash. 

Anthony: So, you go there on pilgrimage? Are there many feasts among the Yazidis?

Samo: Yes. There are three major feasts, and also many others. Of course, we also celebrate our birthdays and our marriages. Marriage is the most important celebration for us, it is something sacred.

With another video, Kalash showed us a traditional Yazidi marriage, in which a green branch must be prepared, symbolising life. This branch is central to the ceremony, without it the marriage cannot be accomplished. 

Anthony: What about initiation? Is there something analogous to Baptism, with Christianity, or to circumcision?
Samo: Initiation is important. There are no ritual requirements for girls, but for boys their hair must be cut ceremonially. This can only be performed by a Shaykh, each family has a Shaykh, who is like their family patriarch.

Kalash: The boys’ hair must be cut at the age of one, we try not to wait longer than that.

Anthony: What happens if you are in the diaspora, and can’t access the Shaykh? I imagine there aren’t many Shaykhs in France?

Samo: That’s right, there aren’t many here. Many live in Lalash, dedicating their lives to prayer, and they are our religious authorities. If they are not here to cut the boys’ hair, for initiation, we cut it ourselves, but we must send it to them in the post.

Anthony: That’s very interesting!

Samo: The Shaykh treats the hair ceremonially, when he receives it, and this validates the initiation of our sons.

Anthony: On the level of belief, how do you understand God and His work? I read that you believe in seven major Angels?

Samo: Yes, there are seven. The most important is Melek Taus.

Anthony: Am I right in thinking he is represented as a peacock?

Samo: This is just representation! It shows his beauty, he is not a bird himself, but angels have wings…

Anthony: The other six angels – what is their function?

Samo: We’d need to ask one of the Shaykhs, our faith is passed on by oral tradition!

Anthony: And God always speaks via Melek Taus, or can God speak in His own ways?

Kalash: Oh yes, God can speak for Himself! But Melek Taus is very important in our faith.

Samo: Melek Taus was with Adam and Eva in the Garden of Eden.

Anthony: What of people? Are the Judeo-Christian Patriarchs and Prophets considered significant by the Yazidis? What of Jesus Christ and Mary?

Samo: They are certainly important, and we have heard their names. There are many stories, which our Shaykhs know better. For us, they are all people of God, but we also venerate Shaykh Adi ibn Musafir, whose tomb is in Lalash.

Anthony: What about Muhammad, as Shaykh Musafir was Sufi? There must be some Islamic influence.

Samo: The simple answer is no, for us Muhammad is not considered one of God’s chosen prophets. We have been very persecuted over the years. In 2015 we suffered from a genocide, and many of our people were kidnapped by Daesh (ISIS). The Ottoman Empire also persecuted our people. Islam and the Yazidis struggle to exist together.

Kalash: But the Christians in Armenia have been excellent to us, they have helped us, and made us very welcome. We live side-by-side, in peace.

Kalash showed us another video, of a new Yazidi place of worship, in Armenia. The building looked impressive, and had seven towers, with the central tower being the largest. On each spire was one of the seven Angels of God. God is known as Xwedê . 

Anthony: What about more spiritual questions? How do you pray? And what do you believe about death and the meaning of life?

Samo: We can pray three times a day (sunrise, noon, sundown) and we usually wash our hands, and our faces before prayer. Life is a mystery, and I can’t say what happens after death! For funeral services, we do pray, and we always insist on burial, never cremation.

Anthony: How do you understand the presence of evil, especially in the context of suffering, which seems to have really affected your own community, tragically?

Samo: It is tragic, but we can’t understand it completely. All is good. We don’t believe in any devil. God is good, the world is good.

Anthony: I suppose the only other thing I was going to ask was whether you have any prohibitions in your religious beliefs?

Samo: Yes, Yazidis can only marry Yazidis. But the Yazidi identity is always passed by the girls – which is why we must initiate the boys by cutting their hair.

Anthony: That parallels with the Jewish belief, of identity passing via the mother?

Samo: Yes, it does! And we don’t eat pork. We do drink alcohol however.

Kalash: In Armenia we like to drink vodka. Sometimes we drink vodka in ritual celebrations, with two hands, and saying a prayer of thanksgiving. In Scotland, you have good whisky?

Anthony: Yes, we do! Thank you so much for your time, and it has been remarkably interesting for me.

Kalash: You must visit Lalash, it is very welcoming to everyone.
Samo: I hope we can meet again, and we can discuss more of your questions. Until next time, and I hope you have a nice Christmas. We celebrate it by giving presents to the children, but we don’t have any religious dimension attached to it.

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Interfaith Learnings

Interfaith Learnings – Sr Isabel Smyth SND

Interfaith Learnings – Sr Isabel Smyth SND

The Scottish Catholic Edition 31 webI have been invited to take part in the monthly faith to faith dialogue organised by Interfaith Glasgow and St Mungo’s Museum of Religious Life and Art. The dialogue will focus on how positive and fruitful interfaith dialogue can enrich one’s own faith and spiritual journey. It’s one that I look forward to. There’s still a suspicion and fear amongst some people of faith that interfaith dialogue will somehow compromise or threaten their own beliefs and practices. For me this has not been the case. I can honestly say that my own faith and spirituality have been enriched and transformed by my work in interreligious dialogue and my contact and friendship with people of other faiths.

My interfaith journey began when I studied world faiths at Lancaster university, met and talked with people of other faiths for the first time in my life and then went on to teach world religions as part of my job in preparing students to teach religious education in Catholic schools at a time when the RE syllabus had moved from being focussed on Christianity to include world religions. This meant trying to give students an insight into the faith of others by explaining some of their beliefs, introducing students to their scriptures, visiting places of worship and encouraging the students to engage in dialogue by visiting the International Flat and taking part in meetings of the Glasgow Sharing of Faiths. To give the students an insight into the wisdom and beauty of a faith I tried to teach it with appreciation and respect, from the ‘inside’ so to speak. Just as a stained-glass window can look quite dull from outside a building but different when seen from inside with the sun lighting up the diverse colours so too another faith can, I would suggest, only be appreciated when we have crossed over, tried to stand in the shoes of another and view it and the world from their perspective. John Dunne, a catholic theologian, sees the work of interreligious dialogue as a crossing over into the world of another and coming back to our own to see it with new eyes. It is this crossing over that brings about a transformation in faith and change of perspective. And along the way I have made many interfaith friends which I greatly value and for which I am very grateful.

So, what have I learned?  I’ve seen my faith from the perspective of another and realised something of its exclusive and oppressive aspects. I was brought up to believe that there was only one truth and that was to be found in the Catholic Church. How wrong we were to think that we were the only way to truth and salvation and that others lived in ignorance of that truth. I have come to recognise, appreciate, and be inspired by the wisdom and truth that I have discovered in other faiths. So too I am glad to say has the Catholic Church. I also appreciate the diversity to be found within faiths. For me this is what makes interfaith relations interesting and challenging because it is very easy sometimes to think that when we use the same words e.g. God or even religion we mean the same thing. We can’t take that for granted. This is where real face to face dialogue happens and it can’t be done quickly. Recently Interfaith Glasgow in partnership with the Council of Christians and Jews produced a report on Difficult Dialogues. It recorded a dialogue that took place over several years, longer than intended because of Covid. I was privileged to be part of that and it was one of the best experiences I’ve had of dialogue because we really listened to one another and honestly shared our common understanding of shared concepts. It also brought out that there is a variety of understandings of people from within one faith and it’s important not to generalise that what one person believes, and thinks is necessarily indicative of what everyone within the faith believes. Interfaith dialogue is a face to face, person to person activity.

Getting to know another faith, experiencing its hospitality and visiting its place of worship is to recognise the sacredness of all faiths. When we encounter a person of another faith we are standing on holy ground, we’re encountering the sacred, the divine in that person and in that tradition. It is indeed a privilege. And sometimes it’s to recognise that another faith might do some things better than our own or its scriptures and teaching lead us to reflect and gain a new insight into our own faith. Krister Stendhal- Ras when he was at Harvard coined the phrase holy envy in urging believers to find beauty in other faiths and there are many things that I admire and could be envious of. But I’ve also come to realise that there are both liberating and oppressive aspects in all faiths and that in interfaith relations it’s important to compare like with like. It’s easy sometimes to compare the best of our own religion with the worst of another or even the worst of our own with the best of another. There is good and bad religion.

Perhaps above all else my interfaith journey has led me to realise that I am a member of a much wider community than my own. I feel in my being that we believers make up a vast community of people who are striving to live a good life and desire the welfare of all sentient beings as well as our planet. I believe that when we each in our own way commit our lives, perhaps our day to following what we believe to be right together we generate a great energy for good, something Christians would call the Kingdom of God, which while hidden is still powerful. Together we are sowing seeds that we hope will grow and flourish, we are in the words attributed to Archbishop Romero prophets of a future not our own.

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Interfaith Reception 2023

Friends from Other Faiths Flock to the Eyre Hall in the Curia of the Archdiocese of Glasgow
by Duncan McLaren, Member of the Bishops’ Committee

Members of the Scottish Bishops’ Committee for Interreligious Dialogue were delighted with the turnout of faith leaders on 28th September.

This was our first Interfaith Reception since the Covid pandemic which stopped the annual meeting from taking place for three years.

Over 60 leaders from communities representing the major faiths as well as friends from the other Churches, local politicians and the Director of Interfaith Scotland were welcomed by the new Interfaith Officer, Joe Sikora. He was standing in for the President, Bishop Brian McGee, who had to go to Belfast due to a family bereavement.

FR5 (002)The guests enjoyed a talk by Sr Isabel Smyth SND, the former Secretary of the Committee and a renowned and well-loved promoter of interfaith dialogue in Scotland. She reflected on what she had learned over three decades about interreligious dialogue and talked about how her interaction with other faiths led not only to knowledge about them but how it transformed and increased her own faith. She focused on four things.

Firstly, on the need for gratitude. Gratitude for the wisdom and insight gained from the faith of others, for the widening of her perspective so that my notion of God, faith has expanded beyond what it was in my own tradition, and for the friendships of many of the people she has encountered over the years.

Secondly, she reflected on the need to “honour the pain” that has marked the chequered history of religious encounters, including the exclusive and oppressive aspects of her own religion, and a long-held belief that the Catholic faith contained the only truth and others lived in ignorance.

She also reflected how interfaith dialogue had given her the ability to see things “with new eyes”.  In particular the diversity found within faiths which makes interreligious dialogue so interesting and challenging.

Finally, Sr. Isabel reflected on the way forward or “going forth”, as collaborators in a vast project to make the world a better place for everyone to live in justice and peace.

Everyone was relieved to meet up again which could be heard in the conversations, the laughter and the invitations given out so freely. Over a simple meal, the atmosphere was one of genuine dialogue, made all the easier because of the friendships forged previously.

A Shia Muslim guest commented: I always enjoyed coming here and used to meet with the late Archbishop Mario Conti.  We became good friends!”.  A Hindu lady who never missed this event in the past said she felt “very much at home as usual”.

It is an occasion such as this that reminds us we are all building, through our interfaith work, peaceful communities which spread that message of living in harmony together throughout society.

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European Bishops Interreligious Dialogue Conference

The headquarters of the Bishops Conference of France in Paris was the venue for the European Bishops Interreligious Dialogue Conference from 13th to 15th September 2023.

This section of the CCEE is headed by Bishop Brendan Leahy and the conference brought together representatives from all over Europe to focus mainly on relationships between Catholicism and Islam. Time was also given to reflecting on relationships with Buddhism and Hinduism.

IMG-20230921-WA0011 (002)Conference listened to presentations and testimonies from academics, theologians and to hear first-hand from representatives of the Muslim and Buddhist communities in France about their experiences of interfaith dialogue and the challenge of building positive relationships between faith communities. Delegates also discussed their own local contexts and discussed potential topics for future conference meetings.

In his welcoming address to the conference Bishop Leahy quoted Pope Francis’ encyclical Fratelli Tutti:

“If we want to encounter and help one another, we have to dialogue. There is no need for me to stress the benefits of dialogue. I have only to think of what our world would be like without the patient dialogue of the many generous persons who keep families and communities together.”IMG-20230921-WA0009 (002)

The importance of this dialogue was picked up in the opening presentation by Fr. Laurent Basanese of the Dicastery for Interreligious Dialogue whose address to the conference mentioned dialogue no fewer that 35 times. He also highlighted the need for faith leaders to lead by example, quoting an Anglican Bishop who said at a recent interreligious meeting for peace in the Balkans:

“If religious leaders don’t ‘walk’ together out of friendship, how can we expect our faithful to do so?”

This emphasis on dialogue and walking together set the tone for the conference and was picked up by Archbishop Turini, President of the French Bishops’ Conference. He noted that the objective of interfaith dialogue was to enrich each other and in doing so deepen our own faith. However, the conference recognised that interfaith dialogue is not without its complexities and difficulties.

What was clear was that the experience of Christian – Muslim interaction varies enormously for both communities depending on the history of their encounter which has in some places been much more challenging than in others. There is a balance to be struck between the need for constructive dialogue and the Church’s mission to proclaim the gospel. The first day concluded with evening prayer and Mass in the chapel within the Bishops’ Conference complex.

On day two of the conference Professor Juliette Galonnier gave a detailed presentation from a sociological perspective on the experience of young Muslims in France. The professor highlighted the fact that the use of the word Muslim can be problematic in itself. She noted that the “Muslim” label covers a diverse reality made up of distinct pathways of religious experiences. Looking at it that way, it is most productive to understand Muslims as a community of debate about Islam, rather than seeing them as a homogeneous community holding similar ideas and practices. Consequently, we need to be careful not to generalise when talking about Muslims or Islam but to recognise the individual nature of each encounter.

Later, Dr Michele Brignone of the Oasis Foundation, an organisation based in Milan that studies the interaction and fosters mutual understanding between Christians and Muslims within the global context, gave a detailed account of the wide variety of ways in which social media is being used to communicate Muslim teaching. One of the complexities that the widespread use of social media creates is the question of authority. Which social media teaching is the right one given that there many and diverse answers to important questions. He concluded that social media is transforming the religious experience of Islam giving rise to new characters and influencers.

Day two continued with a meeting with Rector Chems-eddine Mohamed Hafiz, President of the Great Mosque in Paris. In his talk he highlighted the opportunities that good interfaith dialogue presents to Christians and Muslims especially when it comes to engaging together in acts of charity. However, he did not shy away from some of the challenges that try to separate and break the links that bind the Abrahamic faiths together. He echoed earlier comments of the conference stressing the need to work publicly together to face up to these challenges. He highlighted issues of Islamic extremism and also issues of discrimination against Muslims.

The day’s discussions concluded with small group meetings for the delegates in which potential lines of work for the next conference as well as the opportunity to report on experiences of Islamic-Christian dialogue from within our own national contexts.

20230913_181415 (002)The day concluded with a short walk to the Chapel of Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal for Evening Prayer.

The last day of the conference began with a brief report from Bishop Leahy on a seminar that had taken place in the Dicastery for Interreligious Dialogue between Catholics and Hindus. However, the bulk of the morning was given over to Professor Dennis Gira, a specialist in Buddhism and the testimony of Lama Jigme Gyatso, Co-President of the French Buddhist union. Just as the diversity of Islam had been highlighted in earlier sessions it was made clear that breadth of the Buddhist experience is something that needs to be taken into consideration as part of any dialogue. It very much depends on where we are, what branch of Buddhism we will encounter. But again, the focus was on the need for dialogue. Dialogue that is based on cooperation and action, religious experience as well as dialogue between academics and theologians.

The final contribution from Lama Gyatso gave an insight into his own personal religious journey to Buddhism before he went on to reflect on the experience of Buddhist in France and the challenges they face being properly accepted and engaged by the authorities in vital areas including prison and hospital chaplaincy.

20230913_181415 (002)As is often the case with conferences, the networking that took place outside the main hall over lunch and coffee was just as enlightening. In my conversations with delegates from Sweden, Germany, Austria, Malta, Lebanon, France, Italy and Croatia, I learned huge amounts about the diversity of experience and engagement in interreligious dialogue across Europe.

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Interfaith Insights B

Interfaith Insights 1

Anthony Macisaac
Anthony MacIsaac

Welcome to our first “Interfaith Insights” conversation. Over the coming weeks Anthony MacIsaac will have conversations with fellow students of different faiths.

Catholic Theology Student Anthony MacIsaac interviews fellow students of other faiths.

Interview 1 Abigaëlle Chalom – Jewish student

Anthony: Hello Abigaelle, thanks for agreeing to discuss some elements of your faith with me. It’s good to have the chance to talk about your faith and theology. To begin with let me ask… Is belief in God important for you? What is God in your opinion? I know that is a big question to start off with!

Abigaëlle: Belief just isn’t Jewish core material. God is self-evident, the very starting point of any thought, sensation, emotion or perception. It’s in the very Name, the Tetragrammaton,(YHWH) which is related to the verb “to be”. So if something “is”, it’s God, period. So, believing or not believing isn’t really the question, ever. Life, and how to conduct one’s life, that’s the central matter of Judaism, to me. Furthermore, by definition, no person could embrace God’s point-of-view, so to speak. This means that God isn’t a theory or an addition of principles. Instead, God is the very essence of being. For us, being is not only mere action, but also questioning our own acts and motivations, our desires and needs. Not once and for all, not when so inclined, but as a way of life.

Anthony: What impact does Scripture have on your faith?

Abigaëlle: Since Judaism is not dependent on faith, as far as I am concerned, the Scriptures impact me as would a machine that could travel in Space and Time. Scriptures are a millennia-old writing process, enacted through so many civilisations – all of them born, all of them grown, and all of them eventually lost – sharing the tales of God’s unending diversity, and at the same time God’s breath of constancy.

Anthony: Do you consider Scripture as literature, or as something more?

Abigaëlle: I consider the Scriptures as a powerful generator of symbolism, and as one of the oldest relays of one simple but essential fact, life is hard and confusing, it has been, it will be. Beyond literature, it is the most ancient testimony of our shared struggle and responsibility.

Anthony: What about rituals? Are these important for you?

Abigaëlle: I do believe rituals are at the essence of Judaism, creating a bridge between spirituality and life. Like bridges, we must worry if everybody walks on them at the same pace, and all at the same time, for the bridge will collapse. A Jew remains a Jew, but his identity in Judaism intrinsically demands that he question everything about Judaism. Some Jews will study exclusively, some will maintain a few traditions, some will do both, there are as many variations of Judaism as there are Jews, even an Jewish atheist is still Jewish.

Anthony: In Catholicism, we have the Sacraments. These are centred on worshipping God, but also on our relationship with God. They tend to touch each person emotionally, as they associate all of this with music, art, and even theatre. Do the rituals of Judaism have a similar impact? Do they touch the individual in the same way?

Abigaëlle: I think they do in a way that has been progressively enhanced by successive diasporas. First things first, Judaism excludes images of God, this extends to a complex definition of idolatry. As we said before, God is “to be” but experiencing being – this is human. The depiction of God’s interactions with humanity has always been focused on the human point-of-view in the Jewish Scriptures, and the Jewish arts play with that limitation.

Anthony: Perhaps we can also talk about prayer? One form of prayer is contemplation. In the Church, this is often accomplished by asceticism, the monastic life, and even hermitage. This can also be achieved to a degree in the ordinary devotion of a life well-lived. Is contemplation important for you?

Abigaëlle: Judaic prayer tends to put each thing in its place, to actively celebrate life. Even the austere aspect of some Jewish Orthodox communities contains a constant flow of feasts and celebrations squared by prayer as a conscious rest and focus. So, as a consequence of having no proper eschatology (theology concerned with death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind), Judaism does not seem really “contemplative” to me.

Anthony: As I understand more traditional forms of Judaism, I thought there was some eschatology, even if not well defined. Within the Kabbalah, is there not the idea of Tikkun Olam, that is of repairing and restoring the world to what it should be? Is there not also a world to come in Jewish prayer?

Abigaëlle: One of the most structural ideas in Judaism revolves around the end of times as an undefined and undefinable perspective. The end of time marks a partition between the Olam Hazeh and the Olam Haba – Olam Haba as the continuous here and now, the strictly absolute future. Since potential and realisation are mutually exclusive, human expectations are paradoxical, as shown in the few pages of the Talmud’s Sanhedrin that debate these issues. To act or to wait is the messianic question with the most discrepancy in Judaism.

Moreover, since the end of time is an absolute, nothing is to be humanly said about it and the very question of trying to put a date on it is rejected: “let their breath be taken away, those who try calculating the end of time” say the masters. However, those masters had to manage expectations raised by fears and hopes. To this end, the Talmud refers to the “messianic time”, as a transitional era between our world and the one to come, an era we can discuss to drive our expectations forward. During this era, changes are to occur, but once more, nothing can legitimately be said about the world that is to come because it is within God’s plan and as such, an absolute.

“All the prophets, without exception, prophesied only for the messianic times, but as for the world to come, the reward is not quantifiable, as it states: no eye has seen it except You, Elohim, who will act for him who awaits You.” (Sanhedrin) 

As to Tikkun Olam, I understand it as a goal to target, but not to reach. To me, the idea of a perfect world or a perfect experience is contradictory with humanity. Instead, it is God’s field of existence, while ours is relative, complex and imperfect.

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Thai Buddhists reaffirm friendship and fraternity with Catholic Church

On 15th June 2023 a Buddhist Delegation from Thailand met with representatives of the Dicastery for Interreligious Dialogue in the Vatican. Having been due to meet with the Pope who was recovering from surgery, the delegation left him a letter of prayers and well-wishes.

One minute of silent reflection “to really bring everyone here and now” opened the meeting between a delegation of Buddhist monks, and their entourage, and representatives of the Dicastery for Interreligious Dialogue at the Augustinianum on Thursday 15 June.

The delegation had been due to meet with Pope Francis during their two-day visit to the Vatican, but due to the Holy Father’s ongoing recovery in Hospital, they wrote him a letter, signed by the Venerable Somdet Phra Mahathirachan, Abbot of the Royal Temple of Wat Phra Cetuphon, instead.

The delegation from Thailand consisting of around eighty people, was made up of members of the Supreme Sangha Council of Thailand, the Sangha Assembly of Wat Phra Chetuphon, the Regulatory Office for Overseas Dhammaduta Bhikkhus and the Staff of the King Prajadhipok’s Institute, convened in the main hall of the Augustininum institute. There they were joined by members of the Dicastery for Interreligious Dialogue, including Cardinal Miguel Angel Ayuso, Prefect of the Dicastery, and Msgr. Indunil Kodithuwakku.

The letter to Pope Francis, written in Italian on behalf of all the members of the delegation, as well as the Archbishop of Chiang Mai, Francesco Saverio Vira Arpondratana and the Embassies of Thailand to Italy and to the Holy See, opened with assurance to the Holy Father that they hold him deeply in their prayers.

The delegation members recounted their activities in the Vatican, including having prayed for peace and having paid a visit to the tomb of the late Pope Benedict XVI. The monks then lead everyone to pray for Pope Francis, wishing him a speedy recovery.

In his address to the delegation, Cardinal Miguel Ángel Ayuso, Prefect of the Dicastery for Interreligious Dialogue, reiterated the prayers of the Buddhist delegation for the Holy Father’s wellbeing, and reminded them that we share, as friends do, “the same joys, sorrows, concerns and visions”. The two delegations, Catholic and Buddhist, in fact, do represent a pilgrimage of friends, the Cardinal continued, one which Pope Francis has witnessed.

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Dicastery Collaborators Share Their Stories on Video

From the Dicastery for Interreligious Dialogue

A terrifying encounter that turns into a moment of human understanding; experiencing a Buddhist temple for the first time; a conversation about the meaning of fasting with a Muslim woman; a collaboration to foster peace in an area fraught with religious conflict…

These are some of the interreligious experiences recounted by collaborators of the Dicastery for Interreligious Dialogue in a new series of videos on the topic “Stories of interreligious dialogue.”

The Dicastery works to support the work of dialogue that is happening around the globe. These videos were created with the hope of sparking more awareness of how interreligious dialogue can be lived in concrete situations.

The Dicastery is publishing the first two videos and will continue to publish a video every succeeding month.

The series begins with the testimonies of Ms. Nicoletta Bernasconi, Consultor for the Dicastery and member of the Focolare movement and Bishop James Massa, a Member of the Dicastery and Rectory of St. Joseph Seminary in Yonkers, New York.

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Demonstration Passover Seder

By Joseph Sikora, Secretary for Interreligious Dialogue

In April, Duncan MacLaren and myself attended the demonstration Passover Seder at the Glasgow Reform Synagogue in Newton Mearns.

Lead by Rabbi Pete Tobias, we were, along with a number of other guests representing various faith traditions and local civic society, taken through the rich symbolism and meaning of the Seder.

As a teacher of Religious Education for 30 years, I had often taught my students about the story of the Exodus and Passover but every day is a school day and I learned so much just from being with Jewish community and Rabbi Tobias.

The celebration of the Seder itself is based on one simple line from the Torah “And you shall tell your children on that day ‘This is what the Eternal One did for me when bringing me out of Egypt’”. In this short verse we find two of the most important elements of the Seder.

Firstly, that it is meant to be told to Jewish children by their parents so that they understand the importance of the that led to their ancestors being freed from slavery and secondly, that the struggle for freedom continues and that it is a responsibility for every generation of Jews.

With insight and humour Rabbi Tobias, ably assisted by members of the synagogue at the various tables, took us through the symbolism of the various food that are found on the Seder plate, the somewhat odd custom of leaning to the left to drink the cups of wine, and the various ‘tricks’ that are used to keep the children focused on the meaning of the celebration and the important messages that the Seder holds for the whole community.

A truly joyful occasion somewhat bizarrely rounded off with the singing of a song about the Matzah unleavened bread to the tune of Mama Mia. I didn’t see that one coming.

A grateful thanks to the community of the Glasgow Reform Synagogue for the invitation and a lovely evening.

The photograph above shows Rabbi Pete Tobias extreme right talking to some of the guests. Duncan can be seen at the rear centre of the photo and Joseph is to the left, back to the camera.

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